Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Training Discussion > Grappling Technique

Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2006, 12:24 AM   #1
Jimmy Cerra
Amateur Fighter
 
Jimmy Cerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,452
vCash: 500
Icon8 Japanese Jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

So I was fighting a brown belt in Japanese jujutsu tonight. I'm just a lowly one-stripe white belt in BJJ, yet I schoolled him! The brown belt submitted to me three times under ten minutes each time starting from standing. Complete pwnage.

Now I am twenty pounds lighter and the dude was a beast, so this shouldn't be! Furthermore, he didn't even know how to do an armbar from guard. (Although, he never even got guard against me.) Why wasn't I destroyed? I don't think he was going easy.

Is Japensese Jujutsu that bad compared with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

__________________
Frodo was here.
Jimmy Cerra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 02:15 AM   #2
Commissar

Gold Belt
 
Commissar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 15,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Is Japensese Jujutsu that bad compared with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?
Did you fight under BJJ rules? Or was he allowed using the moves he learnt in Japanese Jujitsu?

If he was allowed all his wristlocks, pressure point attacks, and the like, you'd probably get crushed.

He trains under his rules, you train under yours. When he fights under yours, it's new to him.

__________________
I can't bench press 200lbs, but based on last night, I can have sex with it.
Commissar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 06:56 AM   #3
kimurense

Brown Belt
 
kimurense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Posts: 4,053
vCash: 500
presure points?!?!? I hope you are joking...

__________________
"Muda, que quando a gente muda o mundo muda com a gente
A gente muda o mundo na mudança da mente
E quando a mente muda a gente anda pra frente
E quando a gente manda ninguém manda na gente"
kimurense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 08:03 AM   #4
Jimmy Cerra
Amateur Fighter
 
Jimmy Cerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,452
vCash: 500
It was submission grappling. We really didn't formally agree to any rules: just whoever tapped out lost. Pressure points and wristlocks were allowed. In fact, I used a wrist lock on him once to set up a different submission!

Also, wrist locks and pressure points are allowed in every BJJ competition I participated in too IIRC. They are just not that effective, IMHO.

__________________
Frodo was here.
Jimmy Cerra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 08:45 AM   #5
Resident A-hole

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
From what I've seen, JJJ focuses a lot on more on standing throws than groundwork, which explains why he owned you standing.

But to answer your question, Yes- some japanese JJ students are that bad on the ground due to their focus being on other elements. They do not train in grappling very much, and almost never spar full contact submissions. A BJJ student with a few months experience would likely have more ground experience.

Resident A-hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 08:57 AM   #6
IMP
OBLIVION RECORDER
 
IMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gosuland
Posts: 3,600
vCash: 500
Pressure point is pinching your finger into his neck or behind his ear and I doubt you fight with that shit.
He is probably one of those guys who train for 20 years come once a month and graduate once every 4 years.

And as Japanese Ju Jutsu is not that widely spread standards of teaching seem to be lower.

IMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 09:26 AM   #7
scorcho

Brown Belt
 
scorcho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Japanese JJ frequently focuses much more on defending strikes for self-defense style situations, and often goes pretty easy on the groud fighting. Just a different training method.

There is also a lot of variance in the skills and skill types of TJJ practicioners, because different teachers emphasize different things.

scorcho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 09:32 AM   #8
Jimmy Cerra
Amateur Fighter
 
Jimmy Cerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,452
vCash: 500
Well... Resident A-hole, I completely dominated him standing and on the ground. You misread my post.

IMP: He didn't try for many pressure points like that, even though I am not opposed to them. In fact I know of a few from independent study and athletic training in high school (including that pressure point). Although I don't use them very much since they are easy to counter and not that effective in real life. At least in my experience, the only ones that are useful are wrist locks and inner-thigh pressure points, and I only use them to set up other submissions.

He did attempt a few throws I countered with my own takedowns. The brownie was in great shape and a few years younger than me (24). He told me that trained JJJ for 4 years. I was impressed before fighting him. I admit I am not the greatest BJJer by far, which is why I am puzzled that it was so lopsided. It was no contest I crushed him.

So I'm unimpressed with JJJ right now. What rules would make it more fair? I'll ask him next time. Although I am loath to bring up rules - it was just a spontaneous submission wrestling match after TKD class. I.E. A 'You want to roll?' deal. I just want to have fun!

Scorcho, that makes sense. But IMHO JJJ should be more complete. For example, he knew what an armbar was, but he didn't know an armbar from guard. Nor did he know how to escape side control (I had to show him). He could be great at BJJ if he tried it out, so I hope I converted him to the dark side!

__________________
Frodo was here.

Last edited by Jimmy Cerra; 01-19-2006 at 09:43 AM.
Jimmy Cerra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 10:58 AM   #9
Resident A-hole

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
Oops, sorry I did misread that part. If he sucks both standing & on the ground after 4yrs of training, then I guess he just plain sucks. It sounds like he trains at a recreational club. They probably just learn self defense moves & practice them against non-resisting partners. He is likely one of those who could bend your arm behind your back if you "come at me like this...", but has no clue how to really fight. There is a JJJ school in the same building as my BJJ school, & I see them training when I walk thru. Far from hardcore.

You could train like that for a decade & still get owned in a BJJ class. In any art, if you don't train hardcore & spar regularly, you won't be able to apply anything. This was probably a wake-up call for the guy. It's better he learns his training is bogus from a sparring session than in a real confrontation.

I know a few judo guys (green & brown belts) from a pretty recreational club who have around 3yrs experience & I was able to beat them handily after a few months of training judo/BJJ. The club awards belts eventually to those who have time in but still aren't very good. It all depends on the individual & the club.

Resident A-hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 11:30 AM   #10
Joey Guidice
Professional Fighter
 
Joey Guidice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LONG ISLAND
Posts: 1,060
vCash: 500
I'm a blue belt under the serra bros and i got to roll with a TJJ or JJJ black belt i'm not sure but it was the "small circle" jiu jitsu. It wasn't a challenge at all, i had his back choked him, armbars, triangles you name it. Wristlocks and pressure points were allowed. From my experience, JJJ is not that effective

__________________
"He's probably dreamin of flying triangles right now" - Nick Serra
"Geeks run the world" - Luke "the silent assassin" Cummo

Sub Grappling: 18-4-0
MMA 1-0
07/11/06 - nick/matt serra PURPLE belt
Joey Guidice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 PM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"