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Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here.

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Old 03-12-2006, 02:58 PM   #1
Jimmy Cerra
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Icon4 Grapevine Submission?

I was rolling with this dude and got full mount. He didn't have much experience, but he was a little squirmy. So I grapevined his legs, pressed down with my hips, and arched my back. The intent was simply to stablize my position for a second while stretching my partner out and making it a little uncomfortable for him. However, he tapped from the grapevine.

My instructor said that was a dangerous submission on the knees - one of those you don't do in practice but are good in competition (like heal hooks and some neck cranks, I guess). However, I never heard of this submission before, and I was simply trying to stablise my position. What kind of sub is this, what's its name, and how do you properly peform the technique (I don't count accidents as knowing how to do it)?

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Old 03-12-2006, 03:02 PM   #2
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Your friend is a pussy. If he tapped just because you got your hooks in to block his sweep attempts and the guy tapped, he's a pussy. Does he tap to knee on the belly too?

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Old 03-12-2006, 04:31 PM   #3
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Hey guys! First post here at Sherdog.com

I tapped to that once in Judo class, but that was because I had the nastiest of nasty bruises running up and down my shins. I was told to just circle your legs out to stop that grapevining.

I dont know if it would be a submission since it is easy to just circle your legs out and be done with said submission. Perhaps a higher ranked person could tell you more.

Just my two cents

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Old 03-12-2006, 06:16 PM   #4
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There is a sub you can get from the grapevines, but not exactly how you discribed. Also, I've found that it is rare to get on anyone who has any grappling experience.

Mount grapevines in. With your grapevines bring your opponents heels as close to his butt as you can. Now slowly try to stand by walking your hands up and trying to get your heels flat on the mat with the grapevines in.

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:14 PM   #5
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Superbeast: he is not a pussy. He is just new, and you are not a good mod of good character!

Ybot: What does that strain? The back?

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Superbeast: he is not a pussy. He is just new, and you are not a good mod of good character!
Your opponent was a pussy. Don't deny it. Even if your rolling for the first time, you don't tap out to discomfort (especially from a grapevine).

And I don't know how pointing out fact makes SuperBeast someone of questionable character.

lol....

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:39 PM   #7
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Look closer to find why I made that quip. In any case, you are wrong about my opponent too. How can you judge him when you don't even know him? I rolled with many people, and I think some of them are pussies. This kid wasn't one of them however.

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
I was rolling with this dude and got full mount. He didn't have much experience, but he was a little squirmy. So I grapevined his legs, pressed down with my hips, and arched my back. The intent was simply to stablize my position for a second while stretching my partner out and making it a little uncomfortable for him. However, he tapped from the grapevine.

My instructor said that was a dangerous submission on the knees - one of those you don't do in practice but are good in competition (like heal hooks and some neck cranks, I guess). However, I never heard of this submission before, and I was simply trying to stablise my position. What kind of sub is this, what's its name, and how do you properly peform the technique (I don't count accidents as knowing how to do it)?
Either one of two things. It could've been that he thought you had a submission on, and didn't want to risk it?

The one I'm betting is just pure frustration. Newer guys sometimes just get put in positions and they feel like all they want to to is get out. Which would explain why he was so squirmy. He obviously doesn't like being pinned. You got full mount, he was probably exhausted from squirming so much, and now you're compressing him.

Superbeast, that doesn't make him a pussy, that makes him new. When I started MMA, there are so many RNCs that I got tapped with. Nowadays, you have to almost choke me out to get me to tap from one; I start peeling off hands and pretty much, unless I'm about to pass out, I don't tap. It's because I know my limits. I'm not trying to be a meathead, I'm practicing escaping chokes because there's more leeway. I'll tap when there's definitely no escape. However, new guys don't understand that, and they don't know their limits. They think "Oh shit, I'm stuck," and tap out.

It's like when you start driving. Did you floor the car the first time you drove it? Of course not, it was a little scary just bringing the thing up 30 on the first day. But now that you've been doing it for a while, you know what you're doing. That doesn't make new drivers pussies, it makes them more cautious and less experienced.

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman5592
Either one of two things. It could've been that he thought you had a submission on, and didn't want to risk it?

The one I'm betting is just pure frustration. Newer guys sometimes just get put in positions and they feel like all they want to to is get out. Which would explain why he was so squirmy. He obviously doesn't like being pinned. You got full mount, he was probably exhausted from squirming so much, and now you're compressing him.

Superbeast, that doesn't make him a pussy, that makes him new. When I started MMA, there are so many RNCs that I got tapped with. Nowadays, you have to almost choke me out to get me to tap from one; I start peeling off hands and pretty much, unless I'm about to pass out, I don't tap. It's because I know my limits. I'm not trying to be a meathead, I'm practicing escaping chokes because there's more leeway. I'll tap when there's definitely no escape. However, new guys don't understand that, and they don't know their limits. They think "Oh shit, I'm stuck," and tap out.

It's like when you start driving. Did you floor the car the first time you drove it? Of course not, it was a little scary just bringing the thing up 30 on the first day. But now that you've been doing it for a while, you know what you're doing. That doesn't make new drivers pussies, it makes them more cautious and less experienced.
Exactly. One of my training partners used to tap every time I pinned him in N/S and put my chest on his face looking to transition to a kimura.....I was beginning to think that I must have the funkiest armpits eva! Turned out that he was just new to grappling, and also suffered from claustrophobia. Now he knows that it´s not the end of the world, and can keep his cool and work the escapes. Back then all he knew was that he wanted out ASAP, even if it meant tapping.

In my experience you can cause a lot of discomfort and even outright pain with the grapevine mount, especially if you have longer legs than your opponent, but there is no real submission there, in the sense that you can damage something if the guy doesn´t tap.

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Old 03-12-2006, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
\ This kid wasn't one of them however...
...and yet he tapped to a grapevine....alrighty then.

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