Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Training Discussion > Standup Technique

Standup Technique Jab, right hook, left cross... is it really that hard? Talk about it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2012, 09:18 PM   #51
Ramsey Dewey
Professional Fighter
 
Ramsey Dewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 546
vCash: 500
Interesting thread. Simply put, good striking fundamentals are usually an afterthought for most MMA fighters.

The OP mentioned that Court McGee's striking looked to be very lacking in the most fundamental ways. That makes sense, like a lot of fighters, he's invested most of his training time into grappling (and I should add, his grappling fundamentals are rock solid. The first time I went to a grappling tournament back in Utah, Court was fighting in the absolute advanced division looking like a rock star on the mat.)

I would say that in Utah, (where Court is from) most MMA fights are won or lost based on the fighter's grappling prowess. There are dozens of BJJ & submission wrestling based MMA schools all within spitting distance of each other in Salt Lake City, but only a couple of places that exclusively deal with boxing or Muay Thai. Most of the striking arts represented in Utah (and probably throughout much of the USA) are represented by karate and taekwondo franchise schools filled with little kids doing forms and shouting "kiai!" As a result, many fighters don't take striking as seriously as they should.

I've noticed a trend, however, that right now, the fighters in the UFC who have good boxing fundamentals are the ones that are winning more consistently. It's not like it's rocket science to figure out: from UFC 1, MMA has been a sport about developing a skill set that your opponent lacks in order to gain an advantage. Right now, in an age when most fighters in the UFC are expert grapplers, boxing fundamentals have become what BJJ was in 1993.

Look at Anderson Silva: everyone thinks his head movement is a magical supernatural power. Nope, it's just basic boxing 101- move your head out of the way and counter punch. But those basics take a lot of time to learn. As an MMA fighter, you don't have time to master every skill set.

It's a different story in China right now. Chinese MMA fighters tend to be the polar opposite of Utah fighters. Their striking is awesome and their collective grappling knowledge is rudimentary at best.

__________________
Live simply. Give much. Expect little.
Ramsey Dewey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:21 PM   #52
EWhite77

Yellow Belt
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRENMANIA View Post
Phillippou is a glorified toughman. He isn't that good.
Yeah but he's got a lot of potential. The guy only has two losses. One was his first MMA fight against Richardo Romero and the second was his UFC debut against Nick Catone. With some time he could be really good.

__________________
The force is strong with this one...
EWhite77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 07:41 AM   #53
Lightning Fist

White Belt
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KRONK Town
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukai View Post
First off, he comes off as so damn likeable, I don't know why he gets so much hate. So he likes Jesus and he wont sign your replica belt, I don't think those two things alone garnish the hatred he gets here sometimes.

Secondly, very interesting he came out and said that, but I can't find anything about Jones doing anything with any TKD trainers... it really may be like his judo craze, where he got into how effective Judo could be and then learned a couple of judo moves on the internet. I guess you could credit his spinning back kicks as TKD kicks but I don't know...

And I enjoyed your post, I said I did. It's just on Sherdog, I've heard Machida was a judo specialist, that Fedor had a secret BJJ black belt, that Frank Shamrock was a pro boxer before MMA and Fitch was all catch wrestling... I like to get all the details right.
Its understandable.

I just heard him say it, and saw his kicks and said to myself, 'those look like shitty kicks the way he is kicking at the instep' and looked them up, and resemble TKD.

His game is a copy of Anderson Silva's, with Wrestling. That is no secret. So picking out one style is hard. It all looks like damn good takedown defense, clinchwork, and striking.

And 99.9% of guys who study TKD cant do spinning moves like Jon Jones, so the skepticism is expected.



On people not liking Bones, its because he is so good, and can come of as hypocritical. Bible tattoo, yet bible says no tats. Has this holier than thou/nice guy vibe and image, but he drops Machida after a choke and has a kid with a woman he isnt married to.

I know guys who make mistakes, and people who are nice in real life and are animals in the cage. Jon is one of those kids, he is still a kid. He doesnt understand the fame or attention, and is still making mistakes and growing.

__________________
"In Detroit, the KRONK Gym was cranking out champions just like the automobiles were coming out of the factories."
Lightning Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:13 AM   #54
Discipulus

Black Belt
 
Discipulus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Nasty Nati
Posts: 5,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Fist View Post
Its understandable.

I just heard him say it, and saw his kicks and said to myself, 'those look like shitty kicks the way he is kicking at the instep' and looked them up, and resemble TKD.

His game is a copy of Anderson Silva's, with Wrestling. That is no secret. So picking out one style is hard. It all looks like damn good takedown defense, clinchwork, and striking.

And 99.9% of guys who study TKD cant do spinning moves like Jon Jones, so the skepticism is expected.
First of all, "those look like shitty kicks--must be TKD" is pretty insulting. There are legitimate reasons for kicking with the instep rather than the shin, and TKD teaches the use of both, as well as the ball of the foot and heel. Kicking with the instep should not be an indication that the kicks are based on Taekwondo technique, but rather the way that the leg itself is used in the kick. And even then, there are TKD guys who practice numerous types of kick. Go check out Kyryllo's heavy bag video and then say that his kicks are either shitty, or all thrown in one way. The guy throws many, many variations of the round kick.

Also, I'd argue that any proficient Taekwondo practitioner can execute spinning techniques much better than Jon Jones can. Where did you get that notion? TKD has great footwork for agility and spinning techniques, whereas Jon Jones often looks awkward landing those strikes.

__________________
Read my fight analysis on BE: sbnation.com/users/connor%20ruebusch

Twitter: @BoxingBusch

Facebook: facebook.com/ConnorRuebuschMMA

heavyhandspodcast.com
Discipulus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #55
Roland**
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Fist View Post
stuff
Yeah these guys are nitpicking the shit out of what you're saying to stay disagreeing but you've definitely made good points. To utilize techniques properly from a martial art you can't just practice them separately without understanding the art itself and expect success.

Roland** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 09:01 AM   #56
GreatMilenko

Orange Belt
 
GreatMilenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Standup in MMA still has a long way to go. I would imagine all those flashy techniques would be really effective IF you set them up with sound boxing. You cant just rely on 'special' moves the entire time. Even Alexander Shlemenko, who throws the most frequent/effective spinning moves ive ever seen throws a jab and a cross to mix it up.

__________________
Fedor, Chael (R) , Monson, Manhoef, Lombard, Big Country, Sherk, Palhares, Sanchez, Alves, Shlemenko, Masato, Zambidis.

RIP Smokin' Joe Frazier.
GreatMilenko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #57
Lightning Fist

White Belt
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KRONK Town
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discipulus View Post
First of all, "those look like shitty kicks--must be TKD" is pretty insulting. There are legitimate reasons for kicking with the instep rather than the shin, and TKD teaches the use of both, as well as the ball of the foot and heel. Kicking with the instep should not be an indication that the kicks are based on Taekwondo technique, but rather the way that the leg itself is used in the kick. And even then, there are TKD guys who practice numerous types of kick. Go check out Kyryllo's heavy bag video and then say that his kicks are either shitty, or all thrown in one way. The guy throws many, many variations of the round kick.

Also, I'd argue that any proficient Taekwondo practitioner can execute spinning techniques much better than Jon Jones can. Where did you get that notion? TKD has great footwork for agility and spinning techniques, whereas Jon Jones often looks awkward landing those strikes.
I thought the kicks were shitty. I then looked up the style of kick and they were most like TKD. I never said TKD kicks were shitty. Mate, I am not insulting TKD here. Did you watch the fight, he sued the instep kick (From TKD) so many times with such force he injured his foot. The instep style kick hurts you, just like MT shin kicks do, but your shins harden much better than insteps can. Jon Jones threw these kicks shitty.

You bring up a good point, TKD practitioners can use more kicks, and execute spinning moves better than Jones. Thats why he studied TKD. But, let any TKD practitioner fight in Kickboxing, MMA or in a real life fight without rules and the kicks and spinning moves look much worse. TKD guys have attempted to use them and it doesnt work in MMA.

You need to adapt TKD to MMA. The timing and moves change. Jon Jones used the Greg Jackson system, with his wrestling base to adapt these moves to make them killer in MMA. I can make other examples of non-TKD guys using these moves better than TKD guys, but its not a good use of time, because you are reading farther into what I say just to prove me incorrect. Jon Jones, and very few elite MMA fighters adapt TKD into a solid base to prevent takedowns, which TKD fails to do.

Jon Jones looks awkward, but its because he uses the moves from the clinch and clinch range, to prevent a takedown and capitalize on his clinch work. A TKD practitioner cant get that close without getting taken down.

I will cite one tape on a pure TKD instructor vs a wrestler. Its not about the outcome, watch how many moves his 'timing' allows for - zero.

Jeremy Bullock is and was a pure TKD instructor and Travis Fulton is and was a so-so MMA journeyman with several loses and bad stand up who never trains.

An MMA fighter or wrestler needs the timing to make these moves work, that is what makes Jon Jones special.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Yeah these guys are nitpicking the shit out of what you're saying to stay disagreeing but you've definitely made good points. To utilize techniques properly from a martial art you can't just practice them separately without understanding the art itself and expect success.
Thank you.

I should have simply said it like you did and saved some time.

__________________
"In Detroit, the KRONK Gym was cranking out champions just like the automobiles were coming out of the factories."
Lightning Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 09:23 AM   #58
DrBdan
#SWOLO
 
DrBdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 9,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Fist View Post
Its understandable.

I just heard him say it, and saw his kicks and said to myself, 'those look like shitty kicks the way he is kicking at the instep' and looked them up, and resemble TKD.

His game is a copy of Anderson Silva's, with Wrestling. That is no secret. So picking out one style is hard. It all looks like damn good takedown defense, clinchwork, and striking.

And 99.9% of guys who study TKD cant do spinning moves like Jon Jones, so the skepticism is expected.



On people not liking Bones, its because he is so good, and can come of as hypocritical. Bible tattoo, yet bible says no tats. Has this holier than thou/nice guy vibe and image, but he drops Machida after a choke and has a kid with a woman he isnt married to.

I know guys who make mistakes, and people who are nice in real life and are animals in the cage. Jon is one of those kids, he is still a kid. He doesnt understand the fame or attention, and is still making mistakes and growing.
You know if he had gently lowered Machida to the ground after choking him unconscious people would be saying it was condescending. It doesn't matter what Jones does, haters gonna hate.

In reference to the original topic, I think the first response had it right. McGee's weak striking put him down two rounds so in the third he was throwing hail mary shots hoping something would land.

__________________
"It's always heaviest before a big PR"

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f49/beards-barbells-beer-2645585/
DrBdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 09:32 AM   #59
Roland**
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBdan View Post
You know if he had gently lowered Machida to the ground after choking him unconscious people would be saying it was condescending. It doesn't matter what Jones does, haters gonna hate.

In reference to the original topic, I think the first response had it right. McGee's weak striking put him down two rounds so in the third he was throwing hail mary shots hoping something would land.
Yeah and I don't understand how people are mad about him dropping Machida. Can we get some gifs of fighters gently lowering opponents after choking them, or catching them before they hit the ground after knocking them out? That's not what happens, people go until the ref stops them and then they fuck off.

Roland** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 11:57 AM   #60
Bay Area

Black Belt
 
Bay Area's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Afterlife
Posts: 6,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBdan View Post
You know if he had gently lowered Machida to the ground after choking him unconscious people would be saying it was condescending. It doesn't matter what Jones does, haters gonna hate.
.
If Jones would have gently lowered Machida to the ground, put a pillow under his head, brewed up a pot of tea, poured the sleeping Machida a cup, kissed him on the forehead, turned on a night light in the Octogon, then turned off the lights in the stadium, he would still be hated.

__________________
Will you succumb to the Darkness, or will you stand and shine your Divine inner Light?

Only you can make that decision for yourself.
Bay Area is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"