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Standup Technique Jab, right hook, left cross... is it really that hard? Talk about it here.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:46 PM   #1
dhester23

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Having a bladed stance

I recently have changed my stance to be more bladed and not as squared as it was, I'm am orthodox fighter and while practicing I have noticed that it seems that when I'm trying to slip to the outside of a right cross it is taking a bit too much time. I can still slip it with decent speed by I'm worried about when I come across a faster fighter if I will be able to. Is this just because I'm not slipping fast enough or is by being in a more bladed stance forcing me to not slip the cross but just shoulder roll it. Thanks a lot.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:50 PM   #2
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What's your footwork like for the slip? Are you just trying to lean? It's a much quicker and more balance movement if you turn your rear foot and sit down into it a little bit, like throwing a cross of your own.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discipulus View Post
What's your footwork like for the slip? Are you just trying to lean? It's a much quicker and more balance movement if you turn your rear foot and sit down into it a little bit, like throwing a cross of your own.
Yeah I'm not trying to lean, I'm turning like I would be when throwing a cross but it just seems like its taking a while for me to get my shoudlers around that way.

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Old 05-15-2012, 11:24 PM   #4
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If your stance is right, you shouldn't need to be fast to slip across. It's an opponent attacking you with his furthest weapon, at a far point. You should see that cross coming a mile away if they don't distract you first. It's tough to say what's wrong without an actual image, but if your stance is right this shouldn't be a problem, you shouldn't be close enough to the guy with your face to get hit by a cross outright.

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Old 05-15-2012, 11:38 PM   #5
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If your stance is right, you shouldn't need to be fast to slip across. It's an opponent attacking you with his furthest weapon, at a far point. You should see that cross coming a mile away if they don't distract you first. It's tough to say what's wrong without an actual image, but if your stance is right this shouldn't be a problem, you shouldn't be close enough to the guy with your face to get hit by a cross outright.
I think I might just be waiting a little to long to start the slip or maybe I'm just not used to slipping a cross as I am a jab in the bladed stance because slipping the jab seems so much easier in this stance and I can do it fast so maybe since I'm comparing it to slipping the jab its actually not as slow as I thought.

Also Sinister, I did switch my stance because of the many benefits I have seen you post about on here about the bladed stance and how the old time fighters had it more as opposed to more recent squared stance and I wanted to ask, I have been watching a lot of videos of fighters like archie moore, charles burley and james toney and have noticed they don't slip the right cross too often or at all and usually when they slip the jab and the cross is coming they just basically bend up or down or in toney's case, shoulder roll the cross. Is what they do better than trying to slip it when fighting out of a more bladed stance? Thanks a lot


Last edited by dhester23; 05-15-2012 at 11:41 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:55 PM   #6
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It all depends on what you want to do AFTER the opponent misses the cross. There's no better or best option. It just depends on what you want your counter-attack to be, or what angle you want next.

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Old 05-16-2012, 12:16 AM   #7
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Was going to say the same thing. You'll be safe just bobbing under the cross or fading it. But slipping it opens you up for that counter left hook to body or head.

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Old 05-16-2012, 05:10 PM   #8
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what exactly is fading?

I also have a problem slipping, anyone have any good videos? ive been told i exagerate it too much but its because I cant seem to slip any punch (or get punched in the neck) trying to do a small movement...

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Old 05-16-2012, 05:43 PM   #9
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Like leaning back away from the punch. Though you shouldn't lean too much. I was taught to drop on the back heel and keep your chin tucked while you drop away from the punch.

Watch the videos on Floyd Mayweather's pull counter for some incredible examples. Or watch the way all the best Muay Thai fighters dodge head kicks.

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Old 05-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dhester23 View Post
Also Sinister, I did switch my stance because of the many benefits I have seen you post about on here about the bladed stance and how the old time fighters had it more as opposed to more recent squared stance and I wanted to ask, I have been watching a lot of videos of fighters like archie moore, charles burley and james toney and have noticed they don't slip the right cross too often or at all and usually when they slip the jab and the cross is coming they just basically bend up or down or in toney's case, shoulder roll the cross. Is what they do better than trying to slip it when fighting out of a more bladed stance? Thanks a lot


This is something I have been curious about too, as I'd like more versatility to my head movement than just slipping to my (I'm orthodox) right, pulling back or bobbing/flexing down in response to right hands.

I analysed James Toney and found he almost exclusivly slips/rolls to his right, using head movement to his own left very rarely/ just enough to remind his opponents that he can still do it. Even then though, I can't recall him slipping outside a cross and drilling them with a liver hook- and I've looked.
More often, these bladed fighters tend to duck or bob down completly as an alternative to slipping to the right, and they seem to forego their left hooks as an outside-counter to a right-cross.

George Benton in his fights that I have seen was another example of almost exclusivly slipping and shoulder rolling to his own right. Occasionally, if Benton was squared up against the ropes he might slip outside a right cross- but he would be more square at such a point and even then it was rare. So it generally seems that this defensive manouvere (slipping outside a right cross) is largely taken out of the equation by the bladed stance, or at least made difficult to the point were even its most adept practitioners don't use it.

That said, I'm sticking with my bladed stance, but I got thinking about this because I was watching some Orlin Norris- another cagey 'cute' fighter from the 90's. His style is not bladed like a Toney or Benton- in fact he is often fairly square on- but he moves his head around alot and slips outside right crosses to use counter left hands very well so far as I can see.

Curiously, his pet defensive move is to lean forward and to his own left- apperently giving up his own liver. Why don't more bladed-stanced fighters do this? The obvious answer- they don't want their livers pulped is probably the reason, yet I've not seen Norris' liver been crushed in the way that I 'feel' mine would be if I tried this! Watch Norris responding to Tony Tucker's jabs here in the opening round at 5:20- 5:35 for an example, plenty more further in.

Tony Tucker | Orlin Norris 1/5 - YouTube

So my question is, does blading yourself mean that to a large extent your giving up on slipping outside right crosses, to instead fade with or shoulder roll or slip to your own right? It just seems more natural to move with the force of the punch, especially if your opponent is throwing a quick right hand or so close that it doesn't give you much reaction time. Getting snotted by a right hand you've moved into isnt fun when dissapating its force is so much easier- but I keep trying to bring back the counter liver hook that i had in my repetoir when I was less bladed. Back then, it was just a matter of flexing onto the left foot and slipping the right hand, and whipping in my favourite punch.

So, thoughts on the above?
Am I too 'bladed' (I don't think so) or is it jsut a matter of learning how these motions in the new stance (I don't think so either).
Or, is the reason that James Toney, George Benton, Walcott, Burley and other bladed stance fighters don't slip outside right hands is because thats just a part and parcel of the stance. Am I being too greedy in wanting to have an Orlin Norris-esque range of motion to my left as well as a Toney-esque range of motion to my right!!

Let me know your thoughts and experiences.

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