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Standup Technique Jab, right hook, left cross... is it really that hard? Talk about it here.

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Old 01-01-2012, 11:18 PM   #1
Drunkk

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Boxing vs muay Thai.

To tell you the truth I'm begining to think boxing in mma is more effective than muay Thai. For example the diaz cerrone fight. Cerrone is one of the best kick boxers in the 155 division and he got his ass kicked. Same with nick diaz and cyborg santos.(although cyborg doesn't compare to cerrone) also rampage. All he has is boxing, not even the best boxing and look how far he's came. . In my opinion boxing is more effective. All these muay Thai guys should realize you aren't balanced on one leg as much as you are on two. So any muay Thai guy is susseptable to beig easily taken down. I feel like good boxing>good muay Thai.
Agree or disagree. And why

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Old 01-01-2012, 11:27 PM   #2
a dead stick

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Its never that simple.

For one, Cerrone'ss style, especially the way the throws the roundhouse, is much more of an American Kick Boxing style than Muay Thai.

Also, Nate Diaz does muay thai as well, so its not like he is a pure boxer.

In a style vs style match up of pure styles, muay thai fighter should never allow the boxer to get close enough to really do damage with punches, and if he does, clinch and knee/elbow your way to vitory.

In those terms it makes it seems like Muay Thai would have an easy win, but its never that simple.

Cerrone did throw any, or very few front kicks, which is essential as a kicker trying to keep someone at that range. Instead he tried to box Diaz and got stuck at the end of Diaz's range, and not only that Nate started throwing front kicks at Cerrone to keep him at that range.

Also, your post fails to address the fact that Cerrone was using Muay Thai trips to knock Diaz down repeatedly, in the opposite circumstance you describe.

Ultimately, as a fighter, its up to you to focus on one or the other, AND pick a strategy that will play to your strengths. Muay Thai will give you more tools, and boxing will give you sharper hands than if you only trained muay thai, but the smart thing to do is like Nate, train both, and if your punches are your strength, use your Muay Thai (ie front kicks, check kicks, and kick checking) to implement that strategy.

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Old 01-01-2012, 11:51 PM   #3
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Thanks for your opinion. But you don't think a dirty boxer who was allowed to throw elbows and kicks and clinch that he wouldn't do very well in a match with a muay Thai dude? Because in my opinion most muay Thai dudes really neglect their hands. And body shots(punches) A boxer, would throw almost just as much body shots as headshots. While muay Thai it is really neglected. Or at least from what I've seen of Thai fights.

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:11 AM   #4
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So of course in a boxing match a boxer would beat a muay Thai dude. And in a muay Thai match the muay Thai dudes gunna win. But take away all rules. . . The boxers going to always remain balanced on his feet so less likely to be taken down. While the muay Thai dude as soon as he throws a kick is putting himself on one leg. And just simple logic says how your of balanced on one leg. The muay Thai guy is more susseptable to being taken down an let's just say neither have any ground experience. One the muay Thai guy gets taken down the boxer gets on top. = game over.

Is this right to think.? I mean it makes sence right?

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:12 AM   #5
a dead stick

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your observation is correct. Not only is punching only one of 4 types of stikes allowed in Muay Thai, in competition, punches landed score less point than kicks, knees and elbows landed. Muay Thai has a very different scoring system.

Obviously an art that allows all limbs to strike, won't be as good with just two limbs, compared to a sport that not only restricts striking to two limbs, but also limits HOW you can use them to strike.

In Boxing you can only punch with the front of your knuckles, while Muay Thai allows backfists, and even hammer fists I believe, which when allowed totally change the potential dynamic of punching.

Quote:
But you don't think a dirty boxer who was allowed to throw elbows and kicks and clinch that he wouldn't do very well in a match with a muay Thai dude?
Yes he could do very well, but would still be at a disadvantage on paper. Where is this boxer learning to knee, elbow and clinch anyways? Also, don't forget about trips/takedowns from the clinch, where is the boxer learning those?

I do agree, that having a solid foundation of boxing is very important, but you need muay thai training to really learn how to deal with kicks coming at you, and deal with the clinch in a situation where the ref doesn't immediately separate you.

The sort of stylistic/strategic approach you are speaking of though, I do think is a good idea, but to implement it effectively you would want to cross train both arts IMO.

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:14 AM   #6
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The muay thai fighter will be better at staying on his feet if both are untrained in grappling IMO, because in Muay Thai you do learn throws/trips, and you do learn how to react if someone grabs your foot/legs.

Plus a pure boxing wide stance will get the living shit kicked out of his legs, out of range for his punches if the thai fighter knows what he is doing.

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:14 AM   #7
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You don't understand the fight game much. Why did Diaz beat Cerrone? It's not because Diaz 'does' boxing and Cerrone 'does' kickboxing. It's because Diaz had an advantage at a closer range, and he successfully kept the fight at that range.

Watch Overeem vs. Brock. Reem kept is standing, where he had an advantage. Does that mean that kickboxing beats wrestling? No.
Watch Sonnen vs. Stann. Sonnen took the fight to the ground and wrestle fucked Stann. Does that mean wrestling is better than kickboxing? No.

What we can read into this, is that the fighter who takes the fight where they are strong and their opponent is weak, gains an advantage.

Just as some fighters are stronger on the ground or standing, some fighters are stronger at long range or short range. Some are stronger or weaker punching only, and some are stronger/weaker when the full arsenal of strikes are involved.

/thread.

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkk View Post
So of course in a boxing match a boxer would beat a muay Thai dude. And in a muay Thai match the muay Thai dudes gunna win. But take away all rules. . . The boxers going to always remain balanced on his feet so less likely to be taken down. While the muay Thai dude as soon as he throws a kick is putting himself on one leg. And just simple logic says how your of balanced on one leg. The muay Thai guy is more susseptable to being taken down an let's just say neither have any ground experience. One the muay Thai guy gets taken down the boxer gets on top. = game over.

Is this right to think.? I mean it makes sence right?
How balanced will the boxer, unused to leg kicks, be, when he gets his legs kicked?

Muay Thai Vs Boxing [cool] - YouTube

Muay thai vs boxing - YouTube

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a dead stick View Post
The muay thai fighter will be better at staying on his feet if both are untrained in grappling IMO, because in Muay Thai you do learn throws/trips, and you do learn how to react if someone grabs your foot/legs.

Plus a pure boxing wide stance will get the living shit kicked out of his legs, out of range for his punches if the thai fighter knows what he is doing.
Yeah thats true. Thank you for not being a dick... I expected people trying to talk down to me saying how I'm wrong with no information backing up and I appreciate it

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LZD View Post
You don't understand the fight game much. Why did Diaz beat Cerrone? It's not because Diaz 'does' boxing and Cerrone 'does' kickboxing. It's because Diaz had an advantage at a closer range, and he successfully kept the fight at that range.

Watch Overeem vs. Brock. Reem kept is standing, where he had an advantage. Does that mean that kickboxing beats wrestling? No.
Watch Sonnen vs. Stann. Sonnen took the fight to the ground and wrestle fucked Stann. Does that mean wrestling is better than kickboxing? No.

What we can read into this, is that the fighter who takes the fight where they are strong and their opponent is weak, gains an advantage.

Just as some fighters are stronger on the ground or standing, some fighters are stronger at long range or short range. Some are stronger or weaker punching only, and some are stronger/weaker when the full arsenal of strikes are involved.

/thread.
Not what I'm saying at all. Diaz won because he had better boxing. That's the only reason. He fought a good kick boxer who was using only kickboxing and Diaz was pretty much just dirty boxing. Now Diaz does have muay Thai knowledge so it allowed him to be able to stop what cerrone was doing but pretty much that fight was dirty boxing vs kickboxing and boxing won in that situation.

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